ask an allstate agent about the value plan. are you in good hands? time for one quick email. >> mary lou in illinois. awake because i was tumbled from sleep by the echo of my state representative's outburst. >> that was amazing, wasn't it? take it away. take us to "morning joe." >> total power in one person's hands, not the american way. these damn bills that come out of here, all the damn time! come out here at the last second! mitt romney won the texas

republican primary last night crossing the crucial 1,144 delegate threshold. yes, what a story! he came from never being behind to clinch the republican nomination. they said it could be done, and against no odds, he achieved the possible. good morning. it's thursday, may 31. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, and the chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch. willie, how are you doing? >> i'm doing well. i like your dress today, mika. >> wow. that's really nice. >> that is nice. >> true story. >> oh, thank you. >> who designed that, by the way? >> it's secret. it's a secret designer. we're going to discover her. >> great. >> ok. >> we're not going to discover her if she remains a secret. >> we'll do a few more. yeah. >> how about the al east? it's just collapsed.

the red sox are in last place. and yet they are 2 1/2 games out. >> they're winning. >> what's that? >> how are they winning? >> i have no idea. i have no idea. >> how? >> but they are winning. >> how old did the yankees get all of a sudden? how old? eight years of a-rod at $25 million, hitting .260. going to knock in 55 runs a year. >> there's a rumor that the yankees are going to sell, and then they've come out and said no. if they were smart, they would sell right now. i would not want to be holding the contracts those guys will be holding three years from now when they are in second and third and fourth and fifth place. whoo. going to be brutal. >> question. >> what a game last night. >> who is the 8-year-old coming today? >> there's a reason that's here. >> great basketball game. >> holy cow. >> not going to get to it ever. >> overtime. we'll show you that later. >> mike barnicle, you were -- mika is very obsessed with

health. i'm concerned. you see this report? >> yes. >> this is devastating to people's health. this causes serious problems. can cause heart attacks. can cause strokes. exercise. did you see the study? exercise is bad for your health. >> i'm cutting way back. >> bad for your health. >> all right, idiots. >> you just can't win. open the front page of "the times," if you exercise, you will die. what am i supposed to do? >> well, follow me. do what i do. just sit around on the couch. >> play call of duty. >> did you see the part -- >> where's the clicker? >> you can't exercise when you have lost control of the situation, which is what the mayor of new york city is trying to fix. he wants to put a ban on big sugary drinks. mayor michael bloomberg wants to limit the size of drinks restaurants, movie theaters, even ballpark concessions can

sell. teas, coffees, sweetened drinks over 16 ounces would be prohibited. we have the sizes here on the set, not for you to drink, joe, but just to show the difference. diet sodas, fruit drinks, alcoholic beverages are not included in the ban. the law would not include grocery stores, convenience stores, vending machines and newsstands. mayor bloomberg was quoted as saying this. obesity is a nationwide problem, and all over the united states, public health officials are wringing their hands saying, oh this is terrible. new york city is not about wringing your hands. it's about doing something. i think that's what the public wants the mayor to do. his proposal goes to the board later in june. since he hired everyone, i think it's going to go through. and i think it's a great idea. does anyone want to challenge me on that? >> convenience stores are excluded from this? >> there's a lot of exclusions. >> so i can still get a big gulp? >> that was my question. >> this isn't as big as it gets

when you go to some of these places. and it like drinking a big glass of sugar, of poison. >> you know, obviously, civil liberties, all this stuff. obesity, obviously this show is about politics. >> you just dismiss civil liberties. >> no, no, no. >> freedom. nah. >> how many hours have you debated health care on the show? you solve obesity, you solve health care. done. it's that simple. and it's so -- you know, the calories and the -- just in those huge, huge drinks, it's a great move. you know, we do things to keep kids from smoking. what's the difference? >> does anyone think their kid should drink this entire thing in the course of the day? >> no. >> how about every day? >> no. >> how about three times a week? well, guess what's happening out there? that's what's happening. and that's why the majority of the nation's children are obese. >> we have little kids. my kids, just water. they are nowhere near this stuff. not any even anymore. >> really? >> we give them a little bread once in a while.

it's water. that's what they are used to. >> you can go to the bodega or the 7 eleven. i got one the other day it was so big at the gas station it didn't fit in my cup holder. i had to put it between my legs as i was driving. >> that's awful. >> that big gulp between your legs. there you go. >> did you drink the whole thing? >> i did. i long drive. >> i had it specially made. new poll numbers out this morning are zeroing in on three key battle ground states that president obama won in 2008. why don't you tell us about it? [ laughter ] >> it's custom. >> where do you get those? >> he needs one. >> it's funny because it's true. [ laughter ]

>> we actually -- cars have adapted to the size of human beings. the seats are bigger. everything is made bigger to -- >> president obama and mitt romney are in a statistical tie. this is exciting. in iowa, colorado, and nevada. the economy, of course, is really important to people out there. so 71% in iowa, 74%, 78% in nevada. social issues not so important. when asked what candidate would do a better job with the economy, what did they say? >> iowa voters gave romney the edge, 47%. in colorado, it's a statistical tie. despite the nation's financial struggles there are encouraging numbers for the president. the majority of voters believe the worst of the tough economy is behind us. while roughly 4 in 10 think there are bigger problems ahead. and more than half of those polled say inherited conditions are to blame, rather than the

president's policies. that's probably a pretty important number. >> let's do the matchups ahead in these three states again. iowa, colorado, and nevada. these are the three states that -- i mean, they are going to be key at the end of the day. >> we've got "the washington post" new polling and abc news. >> you look at these three states, though, the swing states out west. colorado, nevada, new mexico, three of the key states, and, boy, donny, it is bunched up tight out there. >> you know, surprising nevada with the percentage of hispanics there. and when you see that as far as romney closing on women, and if he starts to close on hispanics, i mean, obama's got some problems there. but i'm surprised it's that close. >> i really do think the president has to look at -- we said it last week. i really do -- i believe florida is going to go republican. it is such a republican state. the legislature is dominated by

republicans. i do think a portman pick in ohio puts ohio in the republican category as well. and that means these states out west, colorado, nevada, mexico, and iowa are going to be just critical, absolutely critical. >> is it fair to say that for the next 90 days, until the republican convention, we're going to see all of these within a point or two? you get an eight-point bump for the republicans. then the democratic convention. an eight-point bump the other way. and then going into that final weekend, that's what it's going to look like. >> yeah. i just wonder. i think mitt romney, mike, has run such an uninspired campaign, has shot himself in the foot time after time after time after time after time, and the republican nomination fight was a clown show. and yet despite all of that, they're tied. i would be very concerned if i were at the white house and these republicans and this

candidate was tied with me after 3 1/2 years. >> and yet i think the people running the campaign out of chicago, i don't think these numbers would surprise them at all. i think they have always felt i think as many of us here feel it's going to be a two or three-point election. maybe less. now that you have one-on-one, romney versus obama, i mean, people can see two clear choices. it's going to be -- the bottom line on these numbers to me, we have talked about this for months. it's going to be very difficult for the obama campaign to demonize mitt romney. no matter how hard they try to demonize him is going to be a very difficult thing to do. >> yeah. and i don't really, mika, understand why they started to demonize him on bain in may. do you that at the end. with somebody else. >> yeah. >> that bain attack, it's gone. it's done. they can circle back, but people have already heard it. and they heard it in may. they heard it in the preseason.

instead of a week or two out. i just don't get it. i don't understand it. i'll be honest with you. i do not understand politically what the obama team is doing. and, you know, off the record, without using their names, a lot of people on the romney team are going, what are they -- what are they doing? >> on the flip side, the republican ad, going after the solar energy. who are they talking to? >> yeah. exactly. >> who are they talking to? i mean, that was absurd. so to me, i even give the bain attack an a compared to that. >> well, but with solyndra and with bain, you've got the parties preaching to the choirs. i said yesterday, i care about solynd solyndra. but swing voters, i'm sorry, they don't care about solyndra. you may care about bain capital. swing voters, they don't care about what mitt romney did 10 years ago in a company. where they know he was supposed to make profit.

that's just stupid. that's a stupid argument. and if you want the swing voters that are going to put barack obama in the white house. i just -- i do not understand the white house strategy. i'm just saying politically. >> it seems smarter for them. and i bet they will, to go back to massachusetts, something they have been threatening to do, which is to say if you're the fix-it guy, the turn-around guy, why didn't you turn around massachusetts? why didn't you prove to be the fix-it guy when you claimed to be in massachusetts? bring up that 47th in jobs number. >> right. >> it's clear. >> but what if -- >> you made that point. that's true. >> what if coach k decided to leave duke university? right? and he had all of these guys who wanted to go in and replace him at duke. and duke had a search process. and they had all of these candidates lined up. and you had this one guy that ranked 47th out of 50th in wins in his conference.

like in the s.e.c. over the past, you know, 10 years. who would hire that guy? nobody would hire that guy. you can understand that argument. i can understand that argument. we can all understand that argument. i don't understand why that's not all the white house -- oh, you're going to create jobs? great, we need jobs. ok. what did you do in massachusetts? oh, wait. wait. you were like dead last? >> joe, to your point, maybe that is the october message. let me defend the bain argument one more time. and before we start doing victory laps for romney -- >> nobody is doing victory laps for romney. >> but the fact he has run against these bozos i think is the reason maybe he's propped up. we haven't seen him head-to-head with obama yet. but the bain argument is not a bain argument. it's he's not us. he's one of them. he's not in touch. he's a wall street guy. so it's not about oh, he's a bad guy because he was at bain. it is just the stripes they paint him with.

and i believe, joe, to your point, come down the stretch, that's where they are going to say day one, what do you mean, day one? look what he did in massachusetts day one. and that's when you get into the anti-competency issue. >> but, joe, you brought up the lunacy of the bain attacks and how massachusetts should have been focused on, what, one, two weeks ago, and today we're having duval patrick on. and guess what he's going to do? >> what we said they should do two weeks ago. >> but that message is easy for them. i agree the timing of the bain attack was ill fated. >> but if you guys are saying that's not the most potent message, and to your point, the competency, then save that for the last four weeks. >> true. >> the reason they haven't shot that bullet yet, it is the compelling but theet. >> let's look at the new numbers from "washington post" and abc news which shows that romney is closing the popularity gap with

obama, and republican women have a lot to do with it. romney's favorability is up to 41%, within 11 points of the president. he had a 21% advantage just over a month ago. his favorability among female voters jumped 13 points since april, while president obama's dropped seven points. 80% of republican women now have favorable views of mitt romney. the romney campaign released a new web ad yesterday called soul mate. this is interesting. it features interviews with mitt and ann romney, discussing ann's struggle with ms. and here a part of that ad. >> my life was in, you know, in jeopardy. and i was like as vulnerable as a person could be. i was frightened. mitt was frightened. but i needed him desperately. >> i think it affected my dad as much as it affected my mom. >> he really stepped up. he let her be sick. let her take the time that she needed. >> as long as it's not something fatal, i'm just fine. i'm happy in life as long as i've got my soul mate with me.

>> you certainly recognize when you're as sick as that, and you're as in deep trouble as i was in, what a true partnership means in a marriage. >> donny, what do you think? >> wow. i mean, first of all, she is about as likeable and as compelling a potential first lady as we've ever seen. and what that does is romney's stiff. he's not real. he's not human. what it allows them to do is go, well, that's not his style. but what he really is, is that. he just doesn't show it. it actually makes you like him a little bit more. you can't fall in love with them as a family, you can't not fall in love with them. that is compelling. and i think she is a secret, secret weapon. not so secret. >> you heard ann talk. you heard one of the sons talk. we always talk about what a great family they are. and, you know, mitt just doesn't talk. he's just not good at talking about things like that.

but ann would say -- and i'm saying this is a good theme to develop -- ann would say and his boys would say, we'd rather have a doer than a talker. yeah. you can't turn a camera on dad and make him look relaxed. but when the cameras are off, and the lights are off, and we're here alone, dad is the one that we all turn to. that we all -- >> actually turn a deficit into an asset. the fact that he is awkward, that's the way you paint him. and just as a human watching that, i like that guy a lot. with all the talking and all the watching, i was like, let me give mitt another look after that. as a human being. >> mike, how can you not? and we have all said this about the family. you look at the family. and you realize that there's a really good, decent man at the head of that family. >> yeah. and he's a very reserved guy. he always has been a very reserved guy.

and on the public stage, as a debater, as a politician, he is kind of awkward. that doesn't mean he's not a good guy. but, you know, his issue is going to be -- and obama's issue, the president's issue, is going to be who can best in the last two or three weeks get to the anxiety issue that's out there in the country, which is where donny i think was going in his messaging format towards, you know, there's a level of anxiety in this country that is very, very difficult to measure by any poll, i think. >> you know willie, who he reminds me of, this thing reminds me a lot of 1987, 1988, with george h.w. bush, another man, another great man, according to those who knew him best. he just wasn't comfortable talking. wasn't comfortable talking about himself. wasn't comfortable talking about the fact that he was a war hero. wasn't comfortable talking about all of the things he quietly did while nobody was watching. >> and we saw it in some of the polls that mika just showed. his likability, his favorability

numbers are coming up. but mike is right. at end of the day, this stuff is nice and will help on the margins maybe. but they want to know which guy can change the direction of the country. >> very quickly. i'm sorry. it's not going to happen. if he stayed positive, it would force obama to go negative, and obama going negative just doesn't feel good. it's just a weird way. it could put him in a box. it's very interesting. >> the ad that we just showed, and the personal side, and we've spent time in the home with the romneys. and a couple of years ago, i flew out to california to go riding with ann romney. and what you see in that ad, sat down and interviewed her, is what you get when you spend time with her. so she -- you're right. she could be incredibly useful. >> and those boys. >> yeah, the kids. >> they're great. coming up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. also, we'll talk to former presidential candidate newt gingrich. massachusetts governor deval patrick. and later, model turned business mogul kathy ireland. >> come on, donny. >> will be here on set.

>> don't hate just because she loves. that's all i'm saying. >> we'll get her to trash you, i bet. but first, todd santos has a check on the forecast. good morning, guys. looking today like a beautiful day here at least over manhattan. a good stretch of the mid-atlantic, even on up towards boston. so sunglasses something you want to take outside with you. look at least at the radar satellite composite. that system moving off the southeastern coast of new england. that is kind of the remnants of beryl. we have been talking about it for days. not a worry at this point. a lot of clear skies across the east. back towards chicago, dealing with at least a few showers. but for most of us, at least travelwise, today should be a decent setup. cooler temperatures. a little less muggy than the last couple of days now that we pushed that front through. 67 right now in new york. we did have patchy fog. a lot of that is burning off. that's what we can look forward to later on this afternoon. gorgeous conditions. a lot of lower 80s across a good stretch of the east. did want to mention far south florida. some showers pushing up towards at least fort myers. really marco island, naples, the

best chance for some of those. some lightning up towards alligator alley. a look at temperatures across the country, 51 and cool in chicago with showers. some of the heaviest rain there in the short-term moving in north of chicago, south of milwaukee. and a look at it at least through the latter half of this afternoon. we'll be back with more "morning joe" right after this. you do a lot of kayaking?

no. look i'm going through the rapids. okay... i'll take it. sync your card with facebook, foursquare and twitter for savings. that's the membership effect of american express.

time to take a look at the morning papers at 24 past the hour. parade of papers. "the wisconsin state journal" says scott walker leads tom barrett by seven points just days away from wisconsin's first-ever gubernatorial recall race.

>> we have to talk about this for a second. >> that's a big story. >> mike, you know, i'm just going to say it, i said at the very beginning this was a stupid move by the unions. they were going to waste hard-working union workers' dues, chasing a governor who was already chastened. he already figured out that he screwed up. he admitted that he had screwed up. that he should have listened more. that he should have been -- you're not going to beat that guy. a guy that has self-corrected before the recount starts. and so they wasted a lot of hard-working people's dues. and you know what? they have hurt president obama in wisconsin. >> that's the key point. i agree with you there. >> whoever the idiot was that came up with this idea, seriously, should be kicked out of the union and the democratic party. >> i agree with you there, joe. in addition to the dues that are spent on trying to recall governor walker, without the consent of people paying in to

the dues, i think long range they have hurt the obama campaign in wisconsin for the fall. >> and now i would really love to see scott walker showing how much he's matured, if he does win, and it looks like he's going to, reaching out to the unions. all right. "washington post," a new study confirms that the elderly do in fact smell different than younger people. >> what? >> research has -- >> i don't want to hear this. >> research had participants from various groups wear underarm pads for a week while they slept. >> i want to know what the number three story is if this is number two. >> volunteers were then brought in to do a blind sniff test while the body odor of old people was noticeably different, it did not necessarily smell bad. instead, it was middle aged men who were found to be stinky. >> tj, we don't really want to hear this. >> blah, middle-aged men.

>> it's a little ripe. >> my goodness. >> and willie, of course, the story that all of america is glued to and concerned about is the fact that -- >> how old are you, joe? >> the fact that exercise can cause heart attacks. >> you and i have long i hthoug that. >> i would run that marathon, but i don't want to die of a heart attack or stroke. >> which leaves us to the cup holder adapter story. can you please fill that in? i know the viewers are very anxious how to get the adapter, install it in their go. >> go to "morning joe" on msnbc.com and we'll have a "morning joe" cup adapter in the next week. we need to talk to the people in merch. >> big idea. >> a little merchandising. >> can anybody know where you can get that handle of sweet tea at the barbecue place? >> and that is, by the way, that

is part of the adapter. it goes up yar, yo, about eight, 10 inches, right? and then there is a cut in there. >> guys, that's a straw adapter so the straw comes into your mouth while you're driving. >> no. that's too much. >> do you have an innovation, joe, for getting the cup over your belly when you're driving? or does it sit on your belly like this? >> sometimes it just sits there. >> got it. is that where you keep breakfast as well? the part that you didn't eat and you want to eat later? >> you don't have to be bitter. you're upset, mika, because you run eight, nine miles a day, and this story suggests you may be killing yourself. do not take that out on willie and me because we're the healthiest people onset right now other than barnicle. >> oh, yeah. that's just what i think when i look at you. >> that kind of study and the french paradox, drink as much wine as you possibly can to save your heart. now to politico.

the chief white house correspondent there of course is mike allen with a look at the playbook. >> good morning. >> you and vandehei have a big lead story on the site this morning on the republican party calling out the media on bias coverage of this presidential race already, particularly "the new york times." which stories did you zero in on here? >> well, what republicans are telling us is they feel like people are picking at mitt romney, focusing on the bullying story, the story on the front page of sunday's "times" about mrs. romney's horse -- expensive horses that she rides. >> that was such a b.s. story. it was ridiculous what "the new york times" did on the profile. i'm sorry to cut you off there, but i'm glad you brought that up. that entire story was just to say, look, the romneys are rich. it was shameless. >> yeah. >> that's just it. haley barbour, the former mississippi governor, that is now involved in the republican campaigns, says this is part of

an effort to make romney seem weird. romney is not like us. as governor barbour said, as only he can, romney is a capitalist. romney is a hair cutter in the bullying story. romney is a horse rider. and the frustration among republicans, republicans say it doesn't surprise them to have the press being tough on romney. and in fact the press should be tough on all of these presidential candidates. but republicans say they are frustrated, they feel like once again president obama continues to get a pass. they feel like some of the revelations in the david marness book coming out next month, just shows that the press has never really vetted this president. >> no. you know, willie, you can go back 40 years, the john mccain profile where they just completely destroyed a woman's life based on hearsay. they had no good reporting for it.

you look at the cindy mccain profile. and all i will say is, compare the mccain profile and the cindy mccain profile with any profiles. the toughest profile you can find that "the new york times" did of barack obama and michelle obama. it's not a close call. one other thing that mika always brings up, just it all comes down to numbers. look at the numbers that the major media outlets sent of reporters to alaska versus chicago. for the guy at the top of the ticket, who was in rod blagojevich's kitchen cabinet in 2002. compare those numbers. >> sarah palin was just -- come on. >> this has been going on forever. >> the media is bias, just like fox yesterday ran a four-minute anti-obama video. yes, the media is biassed on both sides. >> you have one cable outlet against "the new york times,"

"the washington post," and -- >> which reaches more people than either of those papers. >> come on. come on. in terms of influence, nobody compares to "the new york times." >> just for the record, and mike may know, alex, we could look, maybe i can, i think "the new york times" has had a number of really positive mitt romney front page stories in the past two weeks. one about his religion. and his moral compass. i'm just saying, we can't -- you can't ignore that as well. you guys are making it look like they are all hit pieces. >> that's a great point. i will tell you that the romney campaign was very unhappy about the religion story. they felt that it attributed all of mitt romney's positive characteristics, which is the point you're making, but they felt like they attributed all of them to being mormon when in fact they would say that it's because mitt romney, is who he is. but when we talked to "the times" they say they have been tough on everyone, and they made the point that you did that just yesterday, a front page story when mitt romney clinched the nomination saying that he had galvanized his folks and moved

ahead quicker than they thought. >> "the new york times," and it is a paper i read every day, and i say it without shame to my conservative brethren, i love "the new york times." i read it every day. "the new york times" has never examined barack obama's personality and his background to the degree that they examined john mccain four years ago or the way they are going to go after romney this time. >> what would you like to read about obama? >> they just haven't done it. >> mike allen, with a look inside the playbook. you can read the whole thing on politico.com. celtics and heat battling in overtime. rajon rondo had 44 points for the celtics. would it be enough? highlights are next. plus, an illinois state congressman makes the most of his time on the house floor. >> these damn bills that come out of here all the damn time, come out here at the last second, and i've got to try to figure out how to vote for my people! uh, i'm in a timeout because apparently

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look at that beautiful picture of the sun coming up over new york city. one world trade there on its way up to the sky. let's do some sports now. the heat beat up on a weary celtics in game one of the eastern conference finals a couple of nights ago. game two, different story. overtime epic.

lebron james had a big night, but here at the end of regulation misses a jump shot that would have won it. so we go to overtime. tied at 99-99. dwyane wade takes the feed from lebron, dunk and one. that tied the game at 101-101. rajon rondo was the story for the celtics. 44 points, including all of their points in overtime. that gives the celtics the lead. the first player in nba history with 44 points, 10 rebounds, and eight assists in a playoff game. that's what he did last night. with a minute left in overtime, wade goes to the bucket. and the foul. that clinches the game for the heat. they had been down by as many as 15 points, they come all the way back to win game two. lebron, 34, 10 rebounds, seven assists. game three in boston tomorrow night. the spurs and the thunder pick up their series tonight in oklahoma city. the spurs trying to win their 21st consecutive game dating back to early april in the regular season. >> amazing. >> is that eastern conference final just --

>> celtics needed that one. >> well, that's done. but neither one of those teams are going to keep up with the spurs, right? >> well, the heat will keep up with the spurs. >> lebron had the ball at the end of the game, didn't he? oh, no, he didn't, again. >> well, he did. he missed the jump shot. >> exactly. >> boy, that guy. >> tough on lebron. the guy had 34, 10, and 7. >> it doesn't matter. he's not a gamer. it's that simple. >> you have the alligator arms in the final five minutes. game one of the stanley cup times. l.a. kings beat the devils in jersey, up one game to none. they have not lost a road game in the playoffs. game two saturday night on nbc. al east getting tight. red sox, tigers at fenway. tied at 4-4 in the eighth. adrian gonzalez, a two-out ground rule double. red sox win 6-4. the sox for all their troubles now only 2 1/2 games out. they have won three games in a row. the orioles, meanwhile, in free fall. they have dropped eight of the last 10 games. all five teams in the a.l. east

now above the .500 mark. 2 1/2 games separating the first place o's and rays from the last place red sox. coming up next, deval patrick. keep it on "morning joe." do you see it ? there it is ! there it is !

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by what's getting done. measure commitment the twenty billion dollars bp committed

has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. he wants to talk about bain capital. why doesn't he want to talk about massachusetts? wait a second. all this experience that you're going to bring to the united states, i think that's great. i guess my question is, why didn't you bring this to massachusetts, governor, when you were 47th out of 50th? there are a lot of people that are angry in massachusetts right

now that you had the colonel's secret formula, and you kept it lock up in the safe. >> you get that joke, barnicle. nobody else gets it. >> the colonel's secret formula. >> it's a kentucky fried chicken joke. >> pretty good. >> i didn't know we were going to be playing that. but last week, i was saying just again, why are they going after bain capital when they should be looking at his record in massachusetts, if what democrats say is true, 47th out of 50? so, again, that was just me playing strategist. >> well, here with us now -- >> which i get paid to do. >> surrogate for the obama campaign, democratic governor of massachusetts, governor deval patrick. good to see you. >> good morning. >> what would you make of that strategy advice? >> hold on a second. what happened to the celtics last night, first? >> well, rondo had a good night. but they are coming home. so we'll take game three. >> you've got a chance to beat the heat? >> say it again? >> do you have a chance to beat the heat?

>> we intend to. we have a great fan base here. really fired up. >> what about the red sox? >> red sox had a good night. >> ok. >> yeah. three in a row now, right? >> yeah. >> i'm briefed. >> you are briefed. no martha cokley move there. >> straight from the tigers, yeah. >> and the tigers are a good team, he said for the governor who didn't know who they were playing. [ laughter ] >> you were briefed very well. congratulations. and you're wearing a celtics tie. go ahead, mika. you're here on behalf of the campaign. that's correct, right, governor? >> sure. >> ok. so -- >> but i should also say i'm here on behalf of the people of massachusetts and the successor, myself, of governor romney. and i can tell you, he sold to the people of massachusetts when he was running for governor the same lines he's trying to sell to the united states and it just didn't happen that way.

we were -- he told us he would be about creating more jobs. we were 47th out of 50 in job creation during his time in office. he said he would shrink government and make it more first quarter. in fact, it grew. he told us he would bring us fiscal stability, and he left us in debt. so the record which is relevant and indeed his only experience in public leadership, in government leadership, doesn't point to the case he's trying to sell to the american people today. >> joe, that's the message. last two weeks of the campaign, what the governor just said. that's it. >> you need to do that every six months. >> governor patrick, do you know what the unemployment rate in massachusetts was when mitt romney left office? >> i think when he left office, it was in the 4s. i want to say 4.3, about what the national average is. >> that's pretty good. >> is that about right? yeah. it was about -- by the time he left, it was about what the national rate was.

i think it had trailed the national rate, been higher than the national rate for most of his time. but by the time he left, i think that's about right. >> that's a counterpunch, isn't it, mike? >> i would think so. >> 4.3%. >> yeah, not bad. >> we're well below the national average today, i'm happy to say, and going down. >> that's good. >> governor patrick, it's willie geist. what's your personal relationship like with governor romney? i assume there is one. there always is some level of relationship. what relationship did you have before you became governor and what's it like now? >> he's always been a gentleman to me. and the people who know him well and personally speak very warmly of him. i think that -- you know, i haven't had a lot of interaction with him. but the transition was smooth. i think it was a real sort of a cold shower to listen to the public statements as he was leaving office about there being a budget deficit and then to find out when we had to submit our first budget right after really a couple of weeks after the inauguration to find out

that there was over a $1 billion budget deficit. i'm sorry. he said that there was a budget surplus. but it turned out it was exactly the opposite. and pretty serious hole to dig out of. i'm happy we've dug out of it, though. >> did you find, governor, his personal background, his time at bain capital, when he was governor in massachusetts turned out to be a problem for him in the way he governed or drew up policy and in the way he connected with the people of massachusetts? because that's what the obama campaign is claiming the problem would be now if he were president. >> no. i hear you. i think that the issue isn't about bain. i think it's about whether he's accomplished in either his public or private life the kinds of things he says he wants to accomplish for the united states. and when it comes to growing jobs in the public sphere or fixing government, the record on that is not very strong. in fact, i would say that there is one profoundly important thing that governor romney did when he was governor of massachusetts. and that's to sign the health care reform bill. >> here we go. >> but it's something that he

shuns as you know on the national campaign trail. >> donny deutsch. picking up on the bain thing. if i hear you, you really are agreeing with joe that the bain strategy is not a good strategy for the republicans to follow, for the democrats to follow? >> well, i think that the bain strategy has been distorted in some of the public discussions. bain is a perfectly fine company. they have a role in the private economy. and i've got a lot of friends there. and on both sides of the aisle. i don't think bain is the point. the point is, has he actually created jobs, as he says he has, in the private sector? in the public sector, i can tell you that the record is not very strong. >> mike, take it. >> yesterday, you endorsed elizabeth warren for the united states senate. >> yes. >> some people were kind of surprised that you would inject yourself into a primary. she does have a primary. what are the reasons for your endorsement yesterday? was it to help her because of the conflict over, you know, her native american heritage story? >> oh, no.

you know what? at home, most folks aren't even paying attention to that. they're paying attention to who's going to be a real partner for massachusetts and the people of massachusetts in the united states senate. and that's why i endorsed her. i feel very strongly, i think you know this, both philosophically and politically about the importance of running at the grassroots, getting out from behind the money and the power and engaging with people where they live and where they work. and where they are in their own lives. and elizabeth warren has built a very, very strong grassroots organization. and connecting with people are, and i think that's what's a winning strategy, but also an important governing strategy. it keeps her in touch, keeps her grounded. and that's why i endorsed her, and i'm excited to do so. >> all right, governor. thank you. governor patrick is also the author of a new ebook, "faith in the dream." deval patrick, thank you for being here. >> take care. still ahead, we'll talk to

former republican presidential candidate newt gingrich. >> i'm uses the chris matthews approach. >> chris matthews, he was crazy. i'm not going to lie. he was a little out there. we'll be right back with willie's "news you can't use." hey, did you ever finish last month's invoices? sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation

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oh, please, tell me it's

time. >> it's time. >> is it really? >> we have a good clip for you, mika. >> thank god. >> we are always keeping our viewers posted on what's happening inside the state legislature. >> we love state legislature. that's the people's work. >> particularly in the state of illinois. it's what we do. on tuesday, in the state of illinois, republican state representative mike bost, a casual debate, friends taking over the state's pension plan. let's see how that went. >> total power in one person's hands. not the american way. these damn bills that come out of here all the damn time, come out here at the last second, and i've got to try to figure out how to vote for my people! ashamed -- or you should be, ashamed of yourself! i'm sick of it. every year we give power to one person. it was not made that way in the constitution. he was around when it was written. now we give it -- we pass rules

that stop each one of us. enough! i feel like somebody trying to be released from egypt. let my people go! >> let my people go. >> moses. quoting moses. >> newt will tell you he's channelling me. that's how i was on the floor back in the day. >> really? that's how you are in the newsroom. >> this is not the first time that mike bost has done this. the people around him, if you watch, they don't even flinch. this is just bost being bost. when the papers go, the guy in the white shirt move a little bit. >> trying to punch it. like flech or something. >> looking down at their ipads and blackberries. >> wonder if the cubs box score is in here. >> democracy at work. >> just like a 5-year-old boy. coming up next, former presidential candidate newt gingrich. that's next on "morning joe."

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jennessa? ahh! a round of applause! [ applause ] [ male announcer ] go online to reach every home, every address, every time with every door direct mail. i think you're the only presidential candidate ever to basically go zoo to zoo. what's you and animals about? >> i love the natural world. i love animals whether they are out in the wild. i love animals in zoos. i love -- >> ok. you're going to make news now. best zoo in the country?

>> san diego. >> favorite animal to go watch. >> hard to say. maybe elephants. >> do you like the reptile house? >> yes. >> why do you like the reptile house? >> because -- >> most people are afraid. >> they are astonishingly successful. they do in a different way than we do. and they have been successful for a very long time. >> favorite snake? >> probably a python. >> why? constrictor, right? >> big and passive >> constrictor. >> you like the constrictor aspect of it? >> no, i just like -- >> eats cows whole? >> they don't eat cows whole. >> what about a maximuamba? they attack your nervous system. you have 15 minutes to live. >> you have a more ruthless approach to politics than i do. >> i don't even know what a black mamba is. >> that is just not right. >> no, it's not right. but, you know, the speaker was very patient with chris. >> he did. he answered all the questions as honestly as he could. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe."

mike barnicle and donny deutsch still with us. here with us now from washington, former speaker of the house and former republican presidential nominee newt gingrich. he is here on behalf of the romney campaign. welcome back to the show. >> i have to say between the piece you're going to show between chris matthews and watching the earlier joe scarborough home movie -- >> yeah, i tell you. what did i tell you? exactly. >> it did bring back a lot of memories. [ laughter ] >> i bet it did. >> except you multiply that by 73, and that's what newt had to deal with. >> mr. speaker, that could have been joe in congress or yesterday in the newsroom. >> exactly. >> i'm not sure. >> so i guess the question of the hour, willie geist, has to be there is a snake that goes 35 miles an hour? i never knew this. that's what chris matthews said. >> the mamba? >> so what were you thinking as chris matthews came at you 35 miles an hour with all of these questions about reptiles when you were going on there to talk

politics? >> you know, part of the reason that chris keeps that show is that he's slightly whacked, and -- [ laughter ] >> and you never quite know where you're going. just watch the way he opens the show. you know, it's hardball, and he's off and running. so my experience being with chris has been that if you just relax and stay half a step ahead of him, you can survive the performance, and, you know, get back another day. before the show, we went into his office and were looking at great pictures he's taken in africa over the years. he first went there as a peace corps volunteer. he has a really genuine interest in animals, although i would not have identified him -- as much as i'm a critic, i would not have identified him as a black mamba. >> no, i would not. but chris does, obviously. barnicle, you know him. chris does have a real interest in that. >> well, he does. the speaker is right. chris was in the peace corps in africa. >> i thought you were going to

say you're right, chris is slightly whacked. which of course, everybody says about me. >> chris is, but that's part of his charm. >> we love him. >> yeah. >> this show has taken an interesting start. speaker, what i'd love to talk about this morning, i guess right now the main battle seems to be over bain capital. you were critical of bain capital in the primary process. now the president is being critical of bain capital. how many voters do you think are really going to be swayed by that at the end of the year? come november. >> you know, i actually think ian kl ironically this will be a big vote loser for the president, but it gets him right in the middle of a job creating economic fight. when i listened to governor deval patrick, and when you really look at massachusetts, when romney left it was 4.7 unemployment rate, which if you had that now would be 5 1/2 million more americans at work. every time that the president is

involved on an economic fight, he is exactly on the turf that romney wants to campaign on. if the issue is going to be the longest period of unemployment since the great depression, the highest price of gasoline in american history, the largest deficits in american history, i don't see how the president wins. he's actually better off to campaign on as many distractions as possible and hope people don't quite get back around to the economy. >> speaking of distractions, donny deutsch is here. and he has a question. >> mr. speaker, obviously you're a very passionate man, and we could play hours and hours of clips of you on the campaign trail against mr. romney. as a human being, how hard it is now -- because one thing that is great about you, and i probably disagree with everything you stand for politically but i respect your passion and conviction, you've got to come out now and stump for a guy that it seemed like you clearly didn't like. and you were -- you actually loathed. and now you've got to come on and, you know, i'm a surrogate, blah, blah, blah. that has to be tough just from a human point of view. >> well, you know, we had a very

tough primary season. i threw the kitchen sink at him. he threw a bigger kitchen sink at me. it wasn't fun. and some of it was personal. there's no question about it. but barack obama makes this really easy. if you ask me on behalf of my grandchildren who are 10 and 12 what do i think should happen this november, i believe so deeply that mitt romney should be elected and that barack obama's second term would be a disaster for the country that it's very easy for me to stump for the governor and advocate for the governor because i do honestly believe that a second obama term will be a genuine disaster for the united states. so i think that's -- you know, if it's a different environment, if you said to me in a primary setting is mitt romney my first choice, the answer would be no. but he is the republican party's nominee that's definitive after tuesday night. he has the votes. he'll be the nominee. i am a party loyalist. i have been active since the

1960s in would abobuilding the gop from nothing and now involved in everything in georgia politics. and i really believe in a conservative approach to america's future. and i really am worried about the cost to america of the second term for obama. so it's pretty easy for me to be enthusiastic. >> you're a historian, newt. let's talk about the history of this campaign. really briefly. because,do because donny just asked you a question, and you atalked abouta kitchen sink being thrown at you. i was talking to bob livingston yesterday on the phone, and we both agreed that but for the third party attack ads against you in iowa, in december, when you were surging into first place, and then you recover and you win south carolina and you go to florida, and another slew of unprecedented third party attack ads against you, i think we both agreed but for those two

attacks, you could actually be in romney's position right now. do we need to fix this system that distorts primary processes as much as the super pac process distorted this primary system? >> it's ironic that mccain-fi f gold and the so-called things that proceeded have all empowered the rich, given accountants and lawyers jobs. we would be better off with a system that says any american can donate any personal amount of income after personal taxes as long as they report it online that night, and they give it to the candidate. and then the candidates would have to be responsible for the advertising. you would have a cleaner, more positive, healthier system. i think you -- you watch this fall. between the obama superpacs, and

the romney super pacs, the liberal super pacs, the conservative super pacs, it's going to be a mess and people will be sick of it and it's not the way a great nation should govern itself. >> it's willie geist. i was going to ask you your favorite big cat, but we can move on from that. think about that one. but i want to get specific about policy differences between mitt romney and president obama. we hear all the rhetoric. we hear from one side that mitt romney is an unfeeling rich guy. the other side, the president is a socialist. but what specifically -- if mitt romney were elected president, how would the economy fundamentally change when he gets in office? what policy would he be able to change the direction of the country, to get people working again? >> first of all, i think the recovery would start late on election night when small businesses realize that obama care was going to be repealed, and you'd see employment start back up as early as november or december of this year. the governor himself has said

the very first day he'll sign the keystone pipeline creating thousands of new jobs, increasing our energy security. also a number of regulations he would eliminate on the first day. he is taking steps to repeal obama care on the very first day. i hope he'll ask congress to say in session on january 3 and have new bills on his desk the morning he is inaugurated. i think he'll also appoint some very tough minded people to the government. when you watch the fish and wildlife service threatening to cripple the largest on land oil and gas area in the united states in west texas over a variation of a horned toad, you have to think that the bureaucracy has lost its mind. when you go to the central valley of california and see towns with 30% unemployment, largely hispanic, by the way, all of it done by the fish and wildlife service on behalf of a tiny fish in the sacramento river, again, you think the bureaucracy has lost its mind. when you look at epa trying to

close down coal-burning electric facilities or raise the cost of them dramatically at a time when we want jobs, you have to wonder, you know, these are bureaucrats who obviously have no relationship to the economy. so i think a romney approach will be less government spending, less government intervention, greater freedom for entrepreneurs. more opportunity for small business. and a real desire to focus on job creation as job number one. >> you mentioned repealing obama care, and i'll just tag on willie's question if i could in terms of policies he would put in place. i'm wondering what, especially in terms of job creation, policies does he stand for, would put in place, that are consistent with his past leadership positions specifically serving as governor as massachusetts? because a lot of people question who he really is and what he stands for and his consistency on policies. >> well, i think first of all he really is a problem solver.

and he tries to be very practical and very pragmatic. and i think that his approach to the country at large will be very different than his approach as governor of massachusetts because massachusetts is one of the most liberal states in the country. had an 85% democratic legislature. and was in a very different environment. but i know from both campaigning with him, talking with him, and private -- you know, he's not going to try to take a massachusetts health plan to texas or to idaho or to wyoming. he knows this is a big diverse country. he understands it better after two presidential campaigns. and i think as a result he'll see a desire to liberate the 50 states and have them each develop -- he said this publicly in the debates. have each of them develop approaches in ways that fit their economy and their local culture. it's a little bit like watching kaiser permanente, which has been very successful in california, as an organized doctor system fails in most

areas of the country because doctors simply repudiate that model outside of california. so you have to look carefully at a big diverse nation like this may need a series of local solutions rather than one central solution. >> and by the way, mike, that has long been the republican approach. i know in 1994 when we went in there, you governoringl governor ingler and tommy thomas all trying different things, on welfare reform, health care reform, on tax reform. and you know what? what worked in michigan wouldn't necessarily work in alabama, wouldn't necessarily work in california. >> yeah. i think on that issue, governor romney would be doing a bit better if he could explain this as articulately as the speaker just did. >> exactly. >> mr. speaker, you're familiar with the world stage, given your years in politics. there's been some level of unrest or disagreement with governor romney over his contention made a couple of

weeks ago that russia is our number one national security issue. our number one problem that we confront confront on the world stage. a, do you agree, and b, what dangers do you think we face globally? >> well, i think just raised a really important question, and one that i hope governor romney is going to encourage a national discussion about. i think we're in a different world. i don't think we're in a single alternative kind of world. i think we have a huge problem with radical islamists. i think we have a significant long-term challenge from china. i think russia is still a significant challenge in some ways. certainly it has the most nuclear weapons other than the united states i think has more than we do right now. so i think we also have to look for example at the drug war in mexico. i wrote a newsletter recently on the war below our border. and right in our own neighborhood. the war next door was the title of it. and you -- when you look at the number of people killed in

mexico, we have to be concerned for our neighbors. and we have to have a real -- i think as a national security issue, if mexico became a failed state, it would immediately overnight become our number one national security concern. >> i want to follow up. talking -- speaking of mexico, republicans now find themselves down 30, 40, maybe even 50 points in some polls when you're polling hispanics. you were attacked during the primary campaign for striking a -- i wouldn't even say a moderate tone, a conservative to moderate tone on immigration reform. rick perry was practically run out of the race when he talked about not punishing the children of illegal immigrants in this country. how does the republican party get a candidate out of a primary process when he or she is running for president in a

position where he or she can win enough hispanic votes to win the general election? because we haven't done a very good job of it this year. >> well, first of all, i don't think my position hurt me at all. in fact, i think it helped some because it was a serious concern, a serious effort to try to solve a national problem. i think senator marco rubio will tell you that there is a common sense series of steps we can take that are very attractive to virtually all americans of all backgrounds. he's working on a bill that's very important that i think will be a significant part of the conversation this summer. governor romney has indicated he's going to work with senator rubio on this. you look at somebody like governor suzanna martinez on the border in new mexico. she has a very clear sense as a latina that she can deal with these issues, she can talk to her community. she can campaign among them and she can explain it. i think you're going to find a real effort on our part there. but remember, if you go and talk

to the average latino american, they are going to try to talk number one about jobs, two about education, three about health, and four about the price of gasoline. and they know -- and certainly will be reminded all summer and fall by republicans -- that barack obama broke his word. he said he would solve the immigration problem. he had two full years with a democratic house, a democratic senate. he accomplished nothing. and he is in no position to go out and say that he is the friend of latino americans. he has hurt them on unemployment. he has hurt them on the price of gasoline. he has hurt them on his failure to reform education. and he has hurt them on his failure to be serious and honest about the complexity of immigration reform. i think we'll do better than people expect this fall, and i think you'll see us on univision and telemundo and others to make a real effort to reach out to la tino americans and saying we want to work with you, and we

believe that latinos want work more than promise, and we want to work with you to make sure every person has a job. >> it is so interesting. you talk to hispanic leaders, and they talk about their concerns about this administration and what they did not do over the past three years. and the question is whether mitt romney, the republican party, are going to be in a position to capitalize on that, given some of the rhetoric during the primary campaign. >> i would challenge the speaker. i don't think you're going to see a lot of media dollars spent against the hispanic audience by the republicans. >> oh, my gosh. >> i'm take that bet. >> i will take that bet too. >> let me tell you something. >> i can't bet $10,000. [ laughter ] >> but i will put up $10. >> speaking of a middle class candidate. yes, we will -- we will bet some snakes. >> you know what the speaker just referenced? i find it staggering that the news media, and we are part of the news media, have not covered the fact that it is safer to

live in baghdad than it is in juarez right across the border. >> it is. unbelievable. >> it's staggering the casualties down there. >> it is. mr. speaker, thank you very much for being with us. >> thank you so much. just ahead, zeke emmanuel and nancy snyderman reveal what type of common household drug might be a standard in the fight against cancer. stay with us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees.

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with us now onset, we've got former special adviser to the white house and also of course little known fact, a guy who wanted to run for president on the newt gingrich ticket, van

jones. >> oh, gosh. it's amazing. >> from newt to van. actually, so van is the author of the book "rebuild the dream." and also at the white house, we have nbc news chief white house correspondent and host of "the dilly rundown," chuck todd. chuck, it's an inside joke, washington friends, between chuck and ourselves. chuck, just listen to newt gingrich. it is fascinating. we had deval patrick before. then we had newt. we are -- you get a feeling that we are moving out of preseason and this is -- you know, we get into june, and the race is on for the white house. >> maybe that's what the phone call was meant to -- the president doing the congratulatory ok, and now i'm dropping the flag. you thought we were in campaign mode before. wait until you see things 24 hours later. no, you do get that sense. and i have to say, and i don't

know how much of you have done of the new msnbc marrus polls we have. >> let's put them you will while you're talking about, chuck. >> but this about this issue of how much -- there's no state that have seen more campaign ads, more campaign time, more candidates than the state of iowa. and i highlight this because it's the state of iowa that's dead even, right, 44%, 44%. but it's the largest chunk of undecided voters. so riddle me this, joe. the more information that a state has received, which is iowa, the more time they have spent with candidates, over the last five years has any state spent more time with barack obama and mitt romney collectively? and there are more undecided. i'm wondering is that our future? is that what the other battle ground states are going to look like after we had three months of campaigning in this intense heat and it will make them more undecided? by the way, that means voters are getting a little more turned off. >> chuck, you also know, and if

you have two candidates that are running for a vacant seat, then you don't know which way it's going to break. if i'm the incumbent, and i've been president for 3 1/2 years and i've been campaigning in iowa for five years, and the undecideds are growing, i'm just saying from -- it may not be the case here, but usually historically the incumbent gets very nervous because they know him. >> i do believe when you look at these polls right now, you always to -- that the incumbent numbers are always a little bit more important now than the challenger's. iowa in particular i think is a special case. iowa launched barack obama onto the national scene. that victory there. arguably, you know, was the jet fuel if you will to put him on par with hillary clinton and then allow him to surpass her. so there's a sense -- there's an extra sense of ownership. and his numbers have been poor there for a while. and there have been different reasons that the obama campaign has chalked that up to.

they have said, well, you've had a lot of republicans in the state there campaigning over the last year against obama and obama hasn't been able to fight back. and i think there is some validity to that. but also i talked to another democrat familiar with that state, and i said, you know, this idea of they just feel like they own him more, so the sense of disappointment, they'll hold him to a bit higher of a standard, and they may have a higher sense of disappointment when they are upset with him. >> van, we have come a long, long way from that night in iowa when my blackberry started going off. and i had republicans, conservatives, who i knew would not vote for the president in the fall, but this was in january of '08, going, can you believe what we're seeing in america? >> it was a huge moment. >> what an amazing moment in america. and it's almost like the whole world stopped at that moment and said, oh, my god. this is going to happen. >> people get goose bumps remembering the goose bumps they got. >> exactly. >> that's how powerful the moment was. >> but it goes back to what your

book is about and everything else. you have the dream. >> yes. >> and then it seems to collapse. >> yeah. >> and how do you go back to iowa now and say, thank you for launching the dream, but this is a lot of hard work. >> well, i mean, i do think that the president's got some challenges here. i've just got off the trail from talking about the book, doing the book tour. and the level of economic pain out there is just unbelievable. you get a sense watching television, doing that, you get out there into these, you know, bookstores, into these churches, into these community centers, and the questions people are asking are, how can i stay in my house? >> right. >> we just had numbers come out that said now 1/3 of american homes are underwater. that's something that the president could do something about right away. fanny and freddie could move on that right away. congress could put a refinancing package forward that could help 4 million families that are currently trying to stay in their houses to refinance and

cut the interest rate. the basic mail is not being answered for the american people. there should be a foot race on now between the republicans and democrats to get to that center middle ground. nobody would disagree that an ordinary person shouldn't be able to refinance their house to stay in there. those things aren't being done. that is making the whole political process look bad. >> isn't part of the message, joe, a tough one to deliver, is that that dream you were talking about, that collapsed, that collapsed before he even took office. in fact, very, you know, just in the days, weeks, months before he took office. >> well, this has been as i've said going on since the early 1970s. it's gotten much worse. but this is a president, chuck, that went to the american people and said, i am going to use government to rebuild the dream, so to speak. and for some people, he didn't use enough government. and for more, he spent way too much money.

so you're the incumbent. and you're under the economy. >> well, one thing i would say about that, and i know chuck is going to have a view, but we have to remind people that president obama volunteered to become the captain of the titanic after it hit the iceberg, ok? it hit the iceberg, and then he became the captain. he didn't drive the titanic into the iceberg. somebody else did that. i think that's important. but people do need to understand, look at what's going on right now in wisconsin. you've got, you know, big, big money going in there to stop ordinary people from trying to get the government back on their side. the president should be the person out there trying to save americans billions of dollars, like in student loans. >> should the president be in wisconsin? >> i think everybody should be in wisconsin. >> why isn't the president in wisconsin? >> you have to ask him there. but let me just show you the contrast. the president, if you look at his student loan policy, trying to save 8 million students $20

billion so the interest rate doesn't jump. if you look at what he might do on refinance. 4 million americans save $10 billion a year. he is trying to save american billions. his opponents are spending billions to stop him. big money to hurt people. big money to save them. >> chuck, back to the question, the president owns the economy regardless of when the economy hit the iceberg, right? >> he does. certainly, everybody agrees when you look at these polls that a majority -- large majorities agree he inherited these problems, right? it's not as if he has the problem that there's amnesia there. but what he owns is he owns the recovery. and he's being judged on that, and i think that's what mitt romney is trying to do. and that's the debate, who's going to do a better job managing the recovery. romney is making the argument, hey, this recovery should be better. it should be faster. i can be that guy. and the president is arguing, no, you have no idea. it was such a deep hole. this is good. and if you reverse too quickly,

it could go backwards. look at europe. look at what's going on there. >> right. >> i knew they were having this large argument. and it's a fascinating one because i think you're seeing the mainstream of republican party argue against government investment in a way that they haven't argued against it as a party collectively in a long time. >> right. >> you know, things like, you know, it is unclear whether this republican party would be, for instance, interested in investing a lot more in the space program. you're hearing -- because the criticism you're hearing on the solyndras of the world and it's good politics for them, but they're arguing they might not invest in any of these things anymore. and it's a fundamental shift. and it's a debate that's happening inside the party. and this is where i think the tea party wing of the party is winning that argument, saying, hey, you know what, government shouldn't be a venture capitalist. >> all right. so really quickly, chuck, we see in the marist polls colorado and nevada, seeming to break if you

look at the trend lines, mitt romney's way really quickly. and you don't want to say any state is a must-win state. but we have already talked about florida, which i think it's going republican if you look at the legislature and all the trend lines there. ohio, if portman is selected, is going to be a tough haul. if those two states, those two swing states are tough for the president in november, does he not have to win colorado? does he not have to win nevada? much more, i would say, than iowa. >> look at them collectively. and romney has to win four of the six. virginia, ohio, florida, colorado, nevada, iowa. these are the six closest. he has to win four of the six. the president only needs to win half of them. all six are six states that bush carried in '04, obama carried in '08. when you look at the different ways you pair them, virginia and colorado, the obama campaign feel better about today than they did six months ago. then i think the question marks

really are ohio, iowa, and nevada. right? those three, you have cross currents, worst economy in nevada. that probably favors romney. better economy in ohio. that could bail out the president. >> last word to van really quickly. what's the president's winning message to get these swing states? >> well, i think you have to stop comparing obama to the almighty. you have to compare him to the alternative. and the guy he's running against has no record of being successful creating jobs for people best i can tell. and on the stuff you want to beat him up on, solyndra, we have 2.4 million green jobs in america right now today. there are success stories just on clean energy alone, in spite of the fact that china is flooding the world with cheap solar. i think there's a message there. he just has to get it out. >> chuck todd, thank you very much. van jones thank you as well. the book again is "rebuild the dream." >> congratulations on the book. >> thank you. bestseller. >> exactly. coming up from the runway to the boardroom, model kathy

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41 past the hour. joining us now, "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel and "time" political columnist joe klein here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. very compelling and moving. >> it is very compelling and moving. about ever we do that, though, we're going to go on the inside very quickly. we're going to start here first. and you have -- explain what you guys have put together at "time," complete with charts. >> well, we have a fantastic story by our white house correspondent michael scherer about the vice president called "mo joe."

and, you know, the takeoff quote is that he obviously is obama's main surrogate for places that obama doesn't reach, where white males are, you know, in ohio. >> he's also a hugger. in a way that barack obama will never be a hugger. >> i'm sorry. i'm stealing joe klein's line from 30 seconds ago, where he said he makes bill clinton look restrained. >> and let's look -- now, i've got to show you, though -- >> i like the way you map this out for the viewer. >> the charts are the most priceless part of this. explain. >> he has all of these techniques. the head bump. the shoulder pull. we did a graphic to show how biden does a rope line and works a room. if you've ever been embraced or had him shake your hand, you will see yourself there on the chart. >> it's called the hand hold. >> joe klein, you wrote a book called "the natural" that i enjoyed very much about bill clinton. there are some candidates, there are some politicians, who naturally wade into crowds and they don't have to tell you they

love it. they love it. and there are other people from richard nixon to barack obama -- >> to mitt romney. >> to mitt romney that just don't like being out there. >> yeah. it's almost as if obama has farmed out his emotions to joe biden. for the course of this campaign. and it's true. i mean, you know, my formulation is that in the television era, with the exception of richard nixon, warm has beaten cold in every election. even george hw bush was warmer than michael dukakis. >> right. >> that's great. warm beats cold. i've not heard that before, joe. >> it usually does. let's talk about the cover. >> the cover is a very serious and even grim subject. but a subject that is relevant to almost everybody we know. it's a very provocative cover line that harkens back to the, you know, classic "time" covers from the '60s, it's "how to die," and it's joe klein's story about how his parents died and what he learned not only about

himself and his family but about the health care system in america. and it's a rare kind of story because it's part memoir, part policy paper, and it's very moving. and it's -- everybody should read it. >> when did your parents die? >> mom died last november. dad died seven weeks later. >> and what did you learn since that time? >> well, it was during that time. i moved them from kind of classic fee for service medicare into a nursing home that uses the medical system which is kind of like the mayo clinic, they are paid by performance rather than pay for service. and the most important thing was that the doctors started to talk to me as if i were a human being. and, you know, they were candid. they told me the truth. and i became part of a team

making the basic life and death decisions about my parents' lives. and that made this very, very difficult process a lot better. >> what did that mean to your parents? that their lives weren't unnecessarily prolonged. you know, mom always said, i don't want to be a vegetable. and yet i found myself in chuck grassley's kitchen in iowa with the doctor saying, we need to put in a feeding tube. this is before i moved them into the guicinger system. and feeling guilty in a way, i said, ok, put in the feeding tube, and that was a stupid decision in the end. >> why? >> because when they lose their appetites, they are telling you something. they are telling you it's time. you know, it's time for me to go. >> how does a child, even if that child is 55, 60 years old, how does a child make that decision? >> well, it's always going to be tough. but if you have people who are

being candid with you, rather than -- you know, most doctors are kind of, you know, high priests. they are the captain of their ship. and they don't -- >> are you saying some doctors intentionally lie? >> no. i'm saying that it's hard to get accurate information out of them because they are afraid of malpractice. they, you know, it's in their best interest to keep them alive and keep on performing tasks. >> that's their job. >> and it also fits into the hippocratic spirit of being a doctor. but if we're going to reduce the course of medicare, and make it more humane, i think we're going to have to move to this kind of mod model. it's called an accountable care model. that's the jargon. but it just means doctors are on salary instead of getting paid for all of the things they are doing to your parents. >> did you find during the course of your parents' last few years of life, and i don't know what condition they were in, as they approached death, but did they tell you, you know, it's

time to let go? i want to go. it's time to let go. >> well, in my parents' case, both of them were suffering from dementia toward the end, and dad never wanted to let go. dad thought old age was a reversible condition, and he made things very tough. but before i moved them into the nursing home where things were coordinated, i had like a flotilla of doctors i had to deal with. some of whom were, you know, prescribing different things. mom was rushed to the hospital three or four different times because of conflicting drugs. >> the last five years of my dad's life, you know, it was just a nightmare because there were so many different drugs. i remember right after he died, and you are getting all of, you know, all of his items that he brought in with him to the hospital. one was a bag of -- i think we

counted 30 different medications. and you sit there looking at that and you go, of course, well, this is why we were chasing our tails for the past three or four years. because the drugs didn't work with each other. and one doctor explained it wonderfully. they have these hospitalists now, i guess, that instead of just looking at something vertically, i'm a specialist in this area and i'm just looking at this area and you're getting this pill. and you have 30 different specialists giving 30 different pills. a hospitalist looks at the horizon and says, well, wait a second. >> works together. >> and that's the sort of thing that's so critical especially the final few years. and another thing, though, i want to touch on is that is critical is what you said about doctors on salary instead of doctors being paid in a hospital to perform tests. when my back went out and i couldn't walk, i was in cleveland, they rushed me --

ambulance rushed me to the cleveland clinic. and the doctor said to me, they said, oh, we've got the best spine doctor in america. and he came and he looked at me and he goes, i'm not going to do anything. i was like, what? and i was like in pain. and he said, i'm not going to do anything. he said you know what dogs do when they're hurt? they go in the corner until they feel better. because you're going to hate me but i'm going to send you home because if i give you another back surgery, you're going to have a fusion at 40. it's going to collapse at 44. and by 50, where i almost am right now, you won't be walking. do you know why he made that decision? he made that decision, and i had doctors all over america telling me to get surgery, because at the cleveland clinic -- >> they are paid by salary. >> they are paid by salary. it is a revolution that has to occur in health care. and that's what you're talking about here. >> i have statistics. guisinger actually added a layer

for chronic elderly care called case managers, they are actually nurses, who talk to the elderly. they visit them two or three or four times a good thing becaus elderly parents they complain a lot and need someone to talk to them. >> really. >> but what they found is that by adding the case managers the visits to the hospital were down 18%. readmissions to hospitals were down 36%. the cost was down 7%. if we could reduce the cost of medicare 7% in this country it would be a huge deal. >> let me ask you quickly. you talked about policy. let's talk personal. what have you learned about yourself over the past year since you've been through this and you said good-bye to both your parents? >> what have i learned about myself? >> how has it changed you? >> it slowed me down a lot. it became -- made me more

reflective. i began thinking about life and pushed me forward. i think about my kids rather than my parents now. >> mike, what about you? after you lost your mom what did you -- >> the thing that struck me about my mother, a lot of things strike me about my mother, but, you know, she was a widow for 46 years. toward the end of her life she has still all her faculties, read the papers, has a strong opinion of politics, yet she reached a point within two or three weeks of the time that she passed, she had a mild heart attack, mild stroke. she knew it was time to go. the reason she asked. she told me and my brother, don't do anything. don't do anything. you know? you finally -- the both of you are going to be orphans is what she told us. she had her sense of humor right up to the end.

she had her sense of humor. she said i don't want anything done. i'm tired. i want to go. >> where your father was which is where i fear i will be which is thinking ages is a reversible process. >> all right. the new cover of "time" how to die. thank you very much. we'll be right back. ttd# 1-800-345-2550

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coming up next cracking down on sugary drinks. what new york city mayor michael bloomberg is planning to fight obesity. great move. >> what am i going to drink after i smoke a couple packs? >> thank you, mr. mayor. keep it right here on "morning joe." so you brushed with colgate total and you didn't. let's compare. germ party! eww! now the colgate total mouth. nice! [ female announcer ] colgate total fights 90% more plaque germs. i'm in. [ female announcer ] colgate total. less germs. healthier mouth.

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my first thoughts were about my wife, and my family. i have the most common type of atrial fibrillation, or afib. it's not caused by a heart valve problem. i was taking warfarin, but my doctor put me on pradaxa instead to reduce my risk of stroke. in a clinical trial, pradaxa® (dabigatran etexilate mesylate) reduced stroke risk 35% better than warfarin. and unlike warfarin, with pradaxa, there's no need for regular blood tests. that's really important to me. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding and seek immediate medical care for unexpected signs of bleeding, like unusual bruising. pradaxa may increase your bleeding risk if you're 75 or older, have a bleeding condition like stomach ulcers, or take aspirin, nsaids, or blood thinners, or if you have kidney problems, especially if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all medicines you take, any planned medical or dental procedures, and don't stop taking pradaxa without your doctor's approval, as stopping may increase your stroke risk. other side effects include indigestion, stomach pain, upset, or burning.

pradaxa is progress. having afib not caused by a heart valve problem increases your risk of stroke. ask your doctor if you can reduce your risk with pradaxa. t there. - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know.

good morning. it is 8:00 on the east coast and 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. welcome back to "morning joe" as we take a live look at new york city. back with us onset we have mark barnicle and donnie deutsch. >> mika is very concerned with health. i am concerned. you see this report? >> yes. >> i mean, this is devastating to people's health. this causes serious problems, can cause heart attacks, can cause strokes. exercise. did you see that? exercise is bad for your health. >> i'm cutting way back. >> it's bad for your health. >> all right, idiots. you open the front page of "the times" if you exercise you will die. >> what am i supposed to do? >> exercise may increase heart -- what are you supposed to do? follow me. i mean, do what i do.

just sit around on the couch. >> did any of you see the heart versus the heart? you can't exercise when you have lost control of the situation which is what the mayor of new york city is trying to fix. he wants to put a ban on big, sugary drinks. he want to limit the size of drinks, food carts, movie theaters, even ballpark concessions can sell. sodas, coffees, teas, sweetened drinks over 16 ounces would be prohibited. we have the sizes on the set not for you to drink but to show you the differences. the law would not include grocery stores, convenience stores, vending machines and news stands. the "new york times" quoted mayor bloomberg as saying, quote, obesity is a nationwide problem, and all over the united states, public health officials are wringing their hands saying, oh, this is terrible.

new york city is not about wringing your hands. it's about doing something. i think that's what the public wants the mayor to do. his proposal goes to the board later in june since he hired everyone i think it's going to go through. i think it's a great idea. does anyone want to challenge me on that? >> convenience stores were excluded from this? >> that was my question. >> this isn't even as big as it gets when you go to some of these places. it is like drinking a big glass of sugar. of poison. >> you know, obviously civil liberties over this stuff. >> right. >> obesity -- >> she just dismissed civil liberties. >> no, no. >> you know what? what about the civil liberty to pay for everybody else's health problems? >> you solve obesity, you solve health care, done. it's that simple. the calories and the -- just in those huge, huge drinks, it's

great move. we do things to keep kids from smoking. what is the difference? >> anyone think their kids should drink this entire thing in the course of a day. >> no. >> how about every day? >> no. >> how about three times a week? well guess what's happening out there. that's what's happening and that's why a major portion of the nation's children are obese. >> i'm thirsty. >> we have little kids. my kids, just water. they're nowhere near this stuff. not even juices anymore. >> really. >> we give them a little bread once in a while. >> you can go to the 7-eleven and get -- i got one the other day that was so big at a gas station it didn't fit in my cup holder. i had to put it between my legs when i was driving. >> that's awful. a long drive. >> i had a cup holder specially made.

you want me to -- i can get you one. >> you don't want to admit it. >> new poll numbers out there morning are zeroing in on three key battleground states. mika, why don't you tell us? >> custom. >> all the new cars. >> it's funny because it's true. we actually -- cars have adapted to the size of human beings. the seats are bigger. everything is made bigger. >> according to nbc news, president obama and romney are in a statistical tie. this is exciting. in iowa, colorado, nevada. the economy of course is really important to people out there. >> yeah. >> so at 71%, i colorado 74%, nevada -- when asked which candidate would do a better job

of handling the economy, mika. >> yeah. >> what did voters say? >> iowa voters gave mitt romney a slight edge, 46% to 41%. in colorado a statistical tie. despite the nation's financial struggles there are still some encouraging numbers for the president. the majority of voters believe the worst of the tough economy is behind us while roughly 4 in 10 think there are bigger problems ahead. more than half of those polled say inherited conditions are to blame rather than the president's policies. that's probably a pretty important -- >> let's do the matchups in these three states again. it's iowa, colorado, and nevada. these are the three states that i mean they're going to be key at the end of the day. >> "the washington post" and new polling from "the washington post" and abc news. >> you look at these three states, though, these swing states and you keep hearing -- >> iowa, colorado, nevada. >> out west. colorado, nevada, new mexico, were three of the key states.

and, boy, donnie, it is bunched up tight out there. >> surprising nevada with the percentage of hispanics there. you know, when you see that as far as romney closing on women and if he starts to close on hispanics, i mean, obama has got some problems there. i'm surprised it's that close. >> i really do think the president has to look -- we said last week i really do -- i believe florida is going to go republican. it is such a republican state. the legislators -- legislature is dominated by republicans. i do think a portman pick in ohio puts ohio in the republican category as well. and that means these states out west, colorado, nevada, new mexico, and iowa are going to be just critical, absolutely critical. >> is it fair to say that for the next 90 days until the republican convention we're going to see all these within a point or two? you'll get an eight-point bump for the republicans and then the

convention and an eight-point bum the other way. going into that final weekend that's what it's going to look like i just wonder. i think mitt romney has run such an uninspired campaign, shot himself rhetorically in the foot time after time after time. the republican nomination fight was a clown show. despite all that they're tied. if this candidate was tied with me after three and a half years -- >> i think the people running the campaign out of chicago surprise them at all. i think they've always felt and many of us here feel it is going to be a two or three-point election, maybe less. now that you have one-on-one romney versus obama, people can see two clear choices. the bottom line on these numbers for me, we've talked about this for months, it is going to be

very difficult for the obama campaign to demonize mitt romney. no matter how hard they try to demonize him is going to be a very difficult thing to do. >> i don't really, mika, understand why they started to demonize him on bain in may. you do that at the end with somebody else. that bain attack? it's gone. it's done. they can circle back to people who have already heard it. they heard it in the preseason instead of a week or two out. i just don't get it. i'll be honest with you. i do not understand politically what the obama team is doing. you know? off the record, without using their names a lot of people on the romney team are going what are they doing? >> on the flip side, the republican ad going after the solar energy who are they talking to? >> that's right. >> that was absurd.

to me, i even give the bain attack an a compared to that. >> but with solyndra and with bain you got the parties preaching to the choirs. i said yesterday i care about slid ra but you know what? swing voters, i'm sorry ther, t don't care about solyndra. you may care about bain capital. swing voters? they don't care what mitt romney did ten years ago in a company where they know he was supposed to make profit. that's stupid. that is a stupid argument. and if you want the swing voters that are going to put barack obama in the white house i do not understand the white house strategy. i'm just saying politically. >> it seems smarter for them. i bet they will to go back to massachusetts. something they've been threatening to do. if you're the turn-around guy, that is the whole selling point, why didn't you turn around massachusetts?

why didn't you prove to be the fix-it guy when you claimed to be in massachusetts? bring up the 47th in jobs number. >> it's clear. >> what if -- >> you made that point. >> what if coach k decided to leave duke university and he had all these guys who wanted to go in and replace him at duke and duke had a search process. they had all these candidates lined up and you have this one guy that ranked 47th out of 50th in wins in his conference. like in the s.e.c. over the past, you know, ten years. who would hire that guy? nobody would hire that guy. you can understand that argument. i can understand that argument. we can all understand that argument. i don't understand why that's not all the white house -- oh, you're going to create jobs? great. we need jobls. what are you doing in massachusetts? oh, wait. you were like -- >> maybe that is the october message. let me defend the bain argument one more time.

also, before we start doing victory laps for romney. >> nobody is. >> the fact is the point he has run against these bozos is the reason -- we haven't seen him head to head with obama yet. but the bain argument is not a bain argument. it's he's not us. he is one of them. he's not in touch. he's a wall street guy. so it's not about oh, he's a bad guy because he was at bain. it is just the stripes they paint him with. i believe, joe, your point, come down the stretch, that's -- day one, what do you mean? look what dein massachusetts day one. that's when you get into the anticompetency issue. >> let's look at the new polling numbers from "the washington post" and abc news. it shows romney is closing the popularity gap with president obama and republican women have a lot to do with it. romney's favorability is up to 41% within 11 points of the president. president obama had a 21-point advantage just over a month ago. his favorability among female

voters jumped 13 points since april while president obama's dropped seven points. 80% of republican women now have favorable views of mitt romney. the romney campaign released a new web ad yesterday called soul mate. this is interesting. it features interviews with mitt and ann romney discussing her struggle -- >> my life was in jeopardy and i was like as vulnerable as a person could be. i was frightened. mitt was frightened. but i needed him desperately. >> i think it affected my dad as much as my mom. >> he really stepped up. he let her be sick. let her take the time that she needed. >> as long as it's not something fatal, i'm just fine. i'm happy in life as long as i've got my soul mate with me. >> you certainly recognize when you're as sick as that and

you're as in deep trouble as i was in what a true partnership means in a marriage. >> donnie, what do you think? >> wow. let me -- first of all, she is about as likeable and compelling a potential first lady as we've ever seen. and what that does is romney is stiff. he's not real. he's not human, what it allows them to do is, well that's not his style but what he really is, is that. he just doesn't show it. it actually makes you like him a little bit more. you can't fall in love -- you can't not fall in love with them. that is compelling. i think she is a secret, secret weapon. >> you know. >> not so secret. >> you heard ann talk. you heard one of the sons talk. we always talk about what a great family they are. you know, mitt just doesn't talk. he's not good at talking about things like that. but ann would say, i'm saying, this is a good theme to develop, ann would say, and his boys

would say, we'd rather have a doer than a talker. >> yeah. >> you can't turn a camera on dad and make him look relaxed but when the cameras are off and the lights are off and we're here alone, dad is the one that we all turn to that we all -- >> it turns a deficit into an asset. the fact he is awkward, that is the way you paint him. i have to tell you just as a human watching that i liked that guy a lot after that. with all the talking and watching i was like, let me give mitt another look after that. >> how can you not? we've all said this about the family. you look at the family and you realize that there is a really good, decent man at the head of that family. >> yeah. >> he's a very reserved guy. he always has been a very reserved guy. and on the public stage, as a debater, as a politician, he is kind of awkward. that doesn't mean he's not a good guy. but, you know, his issue is

going to be, and obama's issue and the president's issue is going to be, who can best in the last two or three weeks get to the anxiety issue that's out there in the country which is where donnie i think was going in his messaging format toward the, you know, there is a level of anxiety in this country that is very, very difficult to measure by any poll i think. >> when we come back, the doctors are in. we'll talk to them about this week's health headlines including what common drug in everyone's medicine cabinet can help fight heart disease and cancer. also, she has gone from the cover of "si's" swimsuit issue to now the cover of "forbes." model turned business mogul kathy ireland will be here onset and might also have some fashion advice for donnie. >> god knows he needs it. >> wow. she'll be my friend. you guys won't be happy. >> you're watching "morning joe."

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>> lie down. lie down. exercise kills you. >> yeah. >> don't do it. >> well, joe, i have more bad news for you. >> don't do it. >> i have more bad news. >> what's that? >> you know that cup holder idea you thought you had? >> the morning joe cup holder adaptor by ronco. >> someone has already done it. >> oh, wow. >> terrible. >> zeke. seriously. >> joe's is going to be better because it has a niche for the handle. >> the handle. big old jug of iced tea just put it right in there. >> joining us now former white house adviser for health policy and chairman of the medical ethics and health quality at pennsylvania's pearlman school of medicine, dr. ezekial emanuel and dr. nancy snyderman is on her way in and will join us in a moment. >> just get a big gulp. >> seriously, it is unbelievable how big these drinks are and dangerous and it's poison. what do you think of the ban? >> set up the story. >> we did. front page of the "new york times." >> i don't think we'll get to a ban but i think we have to do

lots of things. as i've said on this show before it is not any one thing. it's a whole variety of changes we need. we do need to change our attitudes. when you and i were growing up, joe. >> exactly. >> 6 ounces or 8 ounces was the norm. now you've got 20 ounces. >> look at this. >> 26 ounces. 32 ounces. it is ridiculous. >> all right. look. >> inc. your mayor is bold. >> the mayor is bold. what he is doing is -- what else? does anyone else have a better idea how to get this ut out of hands of children? if a child drinks this every day isn't the child hurting himself or herself in a very big way? >> i do think we should not think of this as the end. this is only part of a complex. >> right. >> approach that we need. i do think what he is saying is right. these giant drinks are what we should not be doing.

he is doing what we need to do about smoking. >> what i like is -- what i would like for us -- one thing we know we can control without taking away people's personal liberties, get schools focusing more on rigorous exercise for kids. >> that is another element. >> i always say, i eat bad food, sweet cereal. i would have looked like one of these kids you see right now except for the fact i left my house at 7:00 in the morning in the summers, played baseball, ran around the neighborhood, came home at 6:00 at night. anything i put in me was burned up by the end of the day. >> kids sit around today. this is a huge issue, mika. they sit around playing video games instead of baseball. >> i agree. but that is not enough. >> no. it's part of it though. >> even you, joe, who are conservative, i'd say, right? >> right. >> you don't think this is a nanny state. i've heard you say that. you think we need to do a lot here. >> i think we need to -- >> i think we should get the nanny state issue off the table because this isn't about the nanny state. >> a lot of schools --

>> my belief is if we're going to be paying for kids' breakfasts and kids' lunch we the taxpayers have a right then to demand that it's healthy food. >> right. >> and that it helps the kids. and likewise, again, i think rigorous exercise in school. >> i agree. >> has to be a component of it as well. and that is something, i've seen it with my boys growing up. 24 and 21 now. their generation of kids, a lot of their friends are fat. they didn't do what we all did growing up. >> the pictures when kennedy was president and the kids just running and doing normal stuff in school, everyone was sort of skinny. that was the cultural norm. now you look at kids at 13 and 14 and it's like this sort of around-the-belly pudge. >> around the middle. >> it's sort of like normal but that's where all the toxic fat is and the stuff that secretes

the stress chemicals and hurts your organs and sets up this cascade that by the time your kids are our ages, our kids' ages, it gets harder and harder and harder with every decade. >> and isn't this part of it? >> the problem is, look. there is a brilliant doctor at ucc-san francisco who has written about the fact that this is as toxic as cigarette smoke. it is poison. and that sugar should be regulated. so do i think it's, you know, big government? no. i think it -- the mayor is doing something very bold. i have no problem with this one. >> all right. >> is part of the problem a cultural issue in that you've used td word four times now between you and you, doctor. the word "fat" we can no longer use the word "fat" in the english language? you can't say to someone, geez, you're fat. >> i think the word "fat" exists but zeke said something the other day that really resonated

with me. you can't use it in a pejorative way -- oh, the fat kid -- because it hurts. fat is a descriptive term and when i say it to you you mean it. i want to go back to something i said about sugar. julia child was a friend of mine and julia only used sugar. guess what? she used it in appropriate amounts because it was the real thing. but with the fake sweeteners we've triggered our brains into thinking real sugar isn't sweet enough. so now. >> diet drinks. >> we want more of the thing. it's all spun out of control. i would say, drink the real stuff in small amounts. it's supposed to be a treat not an average beverage. >> let's talk about the miracle drug. >> yes. >> i got to say my doctor, my personal physician dr. ari emanuel doing house calls at the 4 seasons in beverly hills was the one who famously said to me don't take one aspirin.

take two aspirin. and then of course he misdiagnosed the purpose for the second aspirin. but, zeke, we've always heard take the aspirin. it helps the heart. i've heard of one study after another over the past year talking about how aspirin can cut cancer 30%, 40%. >> correct. so for a long time we've had indications that aspirin and nonsteroidal antiinflammatory drugs have an anti-cancer effect. initially it was diagnosed in genetic disorders that led to colon cancer. we've had a lot of studies that have consistently shown aspirin can reduce the risk and also the deaths from cancer. it's mainly in colon cancer but you also see it in breasts, lung, prostate. even now skin cancer. >> 40% lower risk of colon cancer, lung cancer, prostate cancer. of course this week we heard new studies about skin cancer.

is that because it increases the circulation of the blood? do we have any idea? >> there are a variety of theories. one theory is it prevents cancer cells from multiplying or developing. another idea is that it actually prevents inflammation which can help cancer cells grow. the third idea is that it prevents metasises, cancer cells going to different parts of the body. >> nancy, we always meant fat, middle aged men like scar grow, he takes the aspirin and it stops him from having a heart attack when he walks down the stairs at night. but my wife has a history of -- her family has heart problems. high blood pressure. why don't we have doctors pushing aspirin on women as well? >> the classic story is a man comes in after having a heart attack. the doc says hey, listen. you have to take your aspirin. never turning to the woman saying oh, by the way you're at risk too. women haven't been part of the national discussion but we

should also mention that there are some people who shouldn't take aspirin. pregnant women, children. >> let's go back to women generally first. >> yes. >> i want to knock this m misperception down. >> heart disease is still the number one killer of women. >> if it's good for men is it not good for women? for instance alcohol we've heard for a long time. stop laughing at me. i am trying to save people's lives. >> dr. scarborough now. >> oh, gosh. >> we've always heard from the studies a glass of wine is good for men. it may not be for women. that is the same with aspirin? >> look. we suddenly made wine a medicine. and i think wine was never meant to be a medicine and the threshold of safety is different for men or women. quietly if you speak to physicians and say what do you take? most doctors take a daily aspirin because we believe in it. >> even women. >> yes, including female physicians. >> a lot of the studies that have been done have not included enough women to be a hundred percent -- >> correct. >> a lot of the experts will be very cautious.

the second thing is no one is a hundred percent sure about the dose for cancer. we're pretty sure about the dose for heart disease. it's the baby aspirin. studies have been done a baby aspirin, regular aspirin, even two aspirins on the cancer side. we're not sure about -- >> i'm taking two regular aspirin. >> you are every day? >> every day. well, actually dr. ari says take one in the morning and another at night. you're looking surprised. do you take two? >> no i take one. >> the one worry, joe, is we should say -- >> that's right. the bleeding mainly from the stomach. if you don't have that problem, you know, that is the one real big problem. i would also say that we should be, you know, again, the data aren't a hundred percent clear on that. and so you need to be a little cautious. >> don't be surprised when you just ooze -- >> we had a followup story on

leeches. >> not for cancer but there is a disease which it is good for. >> what is that? >> the one where you have to bleed people. >> but i don't want to kao that. >> leeches are still used. >> really. >> absolutely. >> who should not take aspirin? >> aspirin is -- >> children, pregnant women, and anyone who has a clotting problem or they're already on a blood thinner like coumadin you should not take aspirin. >> okay. fantastic. >> it is a wonder drug in many ways. very interesting. >> are we making advances on cancer where we're now talking about aspirin. we're hearing more and more about diet and specifically tomatoes and what to eat. are we getting close -- >> remember, 40% to 60% of cancer is related to three things. not smoking, eating a healthy diet including lots of fruits and vegetables. >> and big macs. >> and exercise. do you those three things.

have you beaten cancer? no. substantially reduced your risk of cancer? yes. >> that's also good for heart disease. >> by the way, dr. nancy -- hold it a second. we have to get the story, barnicle. you don't die of cancer if you exercise. you know why? the "new york times" tells us you get heart attacks which is why barnicle and i sit and watch the red sox play. >> where is the clicker? >> i want to there be for my grand kids. >> honey where is the clicker? oh, my gosh. >> mika, before we close can you talk about this? i think it was an hbo documentary that you say will scare people straight on eating. what's it called? >> the weight of the nation. it just crystalizes how deep our crisis is and how long it's going to take to get out of it and it will scare you especially the part about the organs and the fat people who are mildly obese. and what it does to our bodies and how you can't turn it around.

>> you know what's interesting to me, this is a political show, at some point whether it's congress or local government, this is going to break the bank. if you talk about how we spend on war or in our schools the reality is there is not enough money to pay for the obesity and diabetes and heart disease and stroke and cancer that comes from it. so the incremental steps may be very necessary. >> i think it'll end up in the courts. i know that sounds crazy. but you mentioned cigarettes. you mention cigarettes. where do they end up? >> by the way, the reason we mention cigarettes is that is actually a very successful public health campaign in the united states and i think we need to keep our eye on the ball. mrs. obama said, end childhood obesity in a generation. we're not going to turn this ship instantly but we do have to keep our eye on the ball to really turn it and if there are small government conservatives like me out there asking why should you be concerned about this? because the two biggest drivers of long-term debt -- medicare,

medicaid, in 20 years every cent of your tax dollars will go to pay for medicare and medicaid. nothing else if it keeps growing that way. the number one driver of medicare and medicaid? obesity. that simple. whether talking about diabetes. >> we should stop talking about the nanny state. >> i enjoy talking about the nanny state. it whips my people into a frenzy. >> thank you. >> dr. ari, thank you so much. you're getting proud of your brother. >> up next we'll talk to kathy ireland about her billion dollar business and apparently -- >> you know what? seriously, she has got a lot to answer for on this donnie deutsch thing. >> don't worry. >> we shall return.

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what are you doing? >> north harbor, maine, headed to the club. >> what year? >> 1982. >> definitely '82. circa '83. >> do understand on the scarborough "morning joe" website there is this whole

fashion thing about what is donnie going to wear? >> let me tell you something. no matter how well you think that jacket might look air not getting into the club. >> all right. 38 past the hour. >> thank you, captain. >> that was one of donnie's many outfits last month on "morning joe" and now our next guest came to his defense. we still don't know why. on twitter. joining us now kathy ireland the ceo and chief designer of the billion dollar brand kathy ireland worldwide and was featured on the cover of "forbes" magazine in february. kathy, welcome. great to have you on the show. you've got the proper color. >> thank you, mika. back at you. >> you look fantastic. >> thank you. >> what is this donnie thing? why do you come to the defense of donnie deutsch when he clearly does not deserve defense? >> oh, my goodness. well he doesn't need my defense. but look at donnie. >> yes he does. >> he has an individual style and flair. he celebrates it. i love it. >> don't hate just because she loves.

>> i look at models as well as athletes. the older i get the more i look at them sometimes with pity and i go, they don't understand. this is so fleeting. they've got two, three, maybe four years. and they're blowing it. you took what you had with "sports illustrated" and being a model and it seems like you did everything right moving forward. you used that wonderful opportunity to do something much bigger. talk about that and talk about if sometime you look at some of these models and go, oh, god i wish i could talk to them. >> modeling was a great education. it wasn't what i aspired to. i entered that industry as a business person already. first job, 4 years old, sold painted rocks. i knew i belonged on the other side of the lens. >> yeah. >> i knew that my passions and my strengths were design and business.

tried and failed so many businesses. and i really -- i am grateful for that opportunity. i did learn a lot. one of greatest lessons from the modeling career was all the rejection. because in business today the rejection never stops. you need perseverance. >> right. >> so you can carry on. >> where did you get that from? >> amazing. >> where did you learn to look past the no and keep going? is it your parents? was it your faith? what was it? >> all of that. great mentors in my life. you can be mentored by someone you've never met. learning about them. taking the good rejecting the bad. choose the qualities you like. mom and dad. dad worked for labor relations with the farm workers. grew up at cesar chavez rallies. mom was a nurse. great work ethic. when i had a paper route dad said give a hundred percent. customer expects it on the driveway you put it on the front porch.

the foundation of learning to under promise, over deliver and more than 30 years later i'm still the girl with the paper route. >> it sounds like you had goals at a very young age. she is out selling martha stewart at this point. >> really. >> from what i've read. and you have some advice. look at this. look at you. >> $2 billion in retail sales. $850 million wholesale sales. >> that would be an empire. >> a private company. >> and royalty payment 6% of wholesale sales $50 million. >> in 1998 you decided to expand into furniture. >> we did. >> and it was upon the advice of warren buffet. can you tell us about that? >> yeah. he is someone i don't know well but have the privilege of working with through our relationship at shaw industries and nebraska furniture mart. and just listening carefully and hearing that he said in apparel fashion it changes so frequently. in home it's more consistent. took that advice and ran with it. and, again, a lot of rejection. people laughed at that time.

there weren't people known for other things who had brands in the home industry. but today we have woven that thread that goes from wedding to baby to home furnishings and beyond, really thinking about who are we being of service to? how are we really bringing her value? that's really been key to our success. >> did you ever have or do you have now any fear of failure? >> gosh. that is an excellent question. i'm very competitive and i don't like to fail. but i look at failure as education. and in that respect i am very well educated. so i don't let that fear of failure stop me because i learned from it and i grow from it. what i would fear is if i repeated the same mistake twice. that would be terrifying to me. >> funny you ask that. i'm giving a commencement speech a little later. >> because you're a failure. >> and the second point. >> who has invited you --

>> you want to know? >> which girls club? >> what girls school? >> my daughter's high school asked me. >> oh, congratulations. >> i should feel bad. >> yes. >> by the way, in the speech -- >> i hope you dress well. >> the second point in the speech is -- >> failure is your friend. what i try to teach young people is you can't win -- you have to say i'm going to say i'm going to fail. if you are afraid of failure you won't be a success. i call it the failure dichotomy. what is your brand? it is so interesting because there have been so many obviously beautiful women, successful actresses and so what is it about you and what you stand for that you think is connecting with people? >> i think it's the relationship that we've built with our customer. we've built our brand under the radar. i mean, i spoke with you years ago. >> yes. >> on your show. you knew about it. but primarily i felt that it wasn't appropriate for me to use my time and energy to be out there talking about it.

we had a brand to build. and i knew that it wouldn't succeed based on my name, based on any notoriety, a smidgeon of it that i might have had from the last century but really building something solid, listening to our customer, and responding to her needs, always having our ear to the ground and seeking to know how we can be of better service. >> before we go what do you think of mika's dress? i have to do this. >> no, no. >> mika -- >> do you know who designed that dress? >> no, who designed your dress? >> what do you think of it first? >> i love it. i love it. i watched -- i turned on the tv first thing this morning and it's like oh, my gosh. you are so gorgeous. fantastic. >> you won't believe it. fizo logic designed it. >> amazing. joe, we've got to -- i mean. >> that is what i'm talking about. >> yeah. love. >> let's go back to failure. what was -- i bring this up

because it is so important. i always talk about the moment where all i wanted to be, i wanted to get involved in public service and i fought like heck to be escambia county's county attorney. i was praying, this is what i need to do. i didn't get it. and i was crushed. like three weeks later, everything fell out of the way. my chance to run for congress came in. changed my life. that failure. i would be the escambia county at county commission meetings right now if i had gotten what i thought i wanted. that broke my -- what was the moment in your life where you failed and you said, how did this happen? how do i move forward and you used that failure to move forward? >> there have been many moments including a brush with bankruptcy from at the time the only retail relationship we had. an accident that tore my nose from my face, smashed my teeth,

left me with a concussion, unrecognizable. my husband, a terrible disaster at sea left him almost dead. i think we all have epiphanys at certain points in time. i like to think of them as breakthroughs and it is that crystal moment when we make the decision are we going to fall apart, collapse, and break down? or are we going to break those bonds that seek to defeat us, get ourselves up. >> right. >> and break through. and that's what you did. imagine if you would have given up when you had that defeat? >> right. >> wouldn't be here today. >> right. >> there you go. >> the world might be -- >> the world could be a much better place. >> kathy, congratulations. >> thank you. >> for putting up with them as well as being on the show this morning. really great to have you. >> i'm so happy to be here and i'll be working with a great organization today. kids in distressed situations doing wonderful work. >> thank you very much. >> all right. amazing. >> we'll have the info on our website and up next new weekly

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getting a little more disheartened. what is working is football -- not football -- soccer. they've announced a deal to become the local brand for the british soccer premier manchester. gm said it would pull out of the super bowl this year. soccer and american football out and soccer in. >> thank you so much. by the way, pretty darned good turn on the zeplin reference there. all right. more "morning joe" straight ahead.

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so they can focus on building amazing bikes. with xerox, you're ready for real business. welcome back to "morning joe." willie, so much. >> where do we begin? >> i learned from that newspaper study we somehow dug up that older people don't smell bad. they just smell different. in mike's case like sharp vermont cheddar. extra sharp. which again isn't bad. >> what did you learn? >> why did i know you were going there? i learned to my great surprise that donnie deutsch has tremendous discipline, self-discipline. i never knew he had it. >> yeah. >> because several moments i thought he'd come right across. he didn't touch her. i love when our fans speak as she did. and they speak out. and i also learned about the cup